hello good morning everybody welcome back to Seasons EB and flow I am Lee Wright I’m a divorce coach and I am interviewing Jennifer Lee again for the second time she is a wealth manager ma financial planner and she works with people who are going through divorce post divorce getting ready to rebuild among other clients as well obviously and um I wanted to talk to her just again but going a little deeper into what people should be thinking about as they are coming out of divorce and thinking about rebuilding financially recognizing that it definitely takes some time so I’ll just let Jennifer talk a little bit about her thoughts with that to begin with sure um thanks for having me Lee I appreciate it I’m happy to be um be on the call with you um you know transitions are hard you know having a a two income household and then having to take those resources that you had collectively split them in half and then move on can be a major adjustment if there aren’t significant assets your lifestyle may change and you may find yourself a little bit at Ground Zero again so you know it’s a really good time uh to take inventory of what you have and inventory of what you want your future to look like and then we can really create a plan to move you forward to either save more money um invest more efficiently um change your your housing situation so that you have a better cash flow for yourself and your kids and your family um and really just everybody’s different you know everybody’s situation is a little bit different and it can be overwhelming going through divorce transitions are hard so um that’s what we’re here for on the financial side is to help you see your options as we move into the next phase of Our Lives yes yeah and I think that I talk to my clients about the fact that it is going to be a few years until you feel like you’re really back on your feet financially in the beginning you’re figuring out a new budget adjusting to probably having to change your lifestyle to some degree and uh but reminding yourself this is a period of time and you will get back financially to a place that you feel more comfortable and solid but recognizing that there will be some grieving and frustration and sadness there are those are all normal emotions as you go through this hard transition for sure no question no question and you need and you need that support of of the team you know you need the the attorney 

to help you with the with the legal components you you need the financial person to to walk you through you know what’s reality and what you can do and how do we how do we tweak things so that it can be tolerable as you get to that next phase and then you need you to hold the hand all the way through that and shift your thinking and um you know it does take a take a team yeah absolutely so for people who are coming out of a divorce like what are some things that they should be thinking about as they start to get started like how what are if they’re like oh my gosh okay I have a settlement but and what next what do I do yeah it it depends on where you are your either in your financial education and in terms of your assets and your resources so um it’s always a good time when a big change happens whether it’s death divorce uh um moving to a new location buying or selling a business these big changes you need to take inventory right so we need to assess what are those resources what’s the income what’s the assets what are the resources you have at your disposal and then what do you want what do you want your life to look like are you going to work part-time do you want to go back to school uh can you stay in a family home does that make sense and evaluate what that looks like are you gonna move to another state will you have a side hustle you know I don’t know you have to tell me what you want and what you have and then we can help you make that as efficient as possible and then you know it’s just like um financial planning 101 we have to start with the basics you know it’s almost like sometimes when you go through divorce you’re you’re rebooting you have to start over again in terms of building your foundation so want to make sure you have emergency money to protect your family a safe and nice place to live that doesn’t make you house poor um and then you go to the next level and if you have a job you want to get your free money um a match if you have a 401k or 403b at work and they give you dollar Ford dooll match that makes me nuts if you don’t take your good money your free money right this is free to you um your employer is encouraging you to save money so we want to consider that if you’re eligible then you want to think about things like a Roth IRA and so on it goes on it’s building blocks right right I like to say when you’re when you’re a little kid or playing with a little kid a two-year-old and you stack blocks they just knock it right over right well we want to build as much of a solid foundation at the base that you can truly build so it might take a little bit of time yeah yeah I listened to a lot of podcasts lately about like the idea of Building Wealth versus just saving so that your thinking your perspective is like how do I create things that will maybe provide passive income or that are creating wealth on their own eventually and it’s a very different mindset or thought process than just okay I’m saving 10% of my income or something sure well that’s a that’s a very valid point so again talking about levels of sophistication oftentimes people um the people that we tend to work with happen to be what I call the non-money parties so their their historic experience or their role in their relationship was not to handle that portion you know in relationships we often divide and conquer now sometimes you may be in charge of the money and in charge of everything and that’s great now we need to shift the bindet to how do I create other streams of income but the first piece is getting you have to have a solid foundation and a comfort level to be able to talk about money right and what it can do for you when we traditionally in this industry talk about saving money and putting it aside I like to use the analogy of building a machine so when you’re saving 10% of your income you’re putting little bits of money over here and you’re buying sheet metal and nuts and bolts and you’re if you put a little bit away you build a tiny little machine the more you put away the bigger and and so on and the idea is when you retire when you need that to generate income you turn off the light switch at work you go home and you flip on the machine and the machine kicks out income okay so if you’re not tapping into the machine but you’re just getting what it generates

 that’s a form of generating income so that’s one piece um if you get a little bit more in depth or a little bit more creative like you’re suggesting different shift your mindset so do you buy um do you buy real estate and invest in real estate so you have renters and you have income and somebody else is pay it’s similar idea somebody else is paying for that machine okay and 20 30 years from now in theory that machine is paid off and now it just generates income okay you fix it you got to pay taxes those kind of things right um that is a way um other things traditional Investments would would involve you know dividend stocks or it might involve bonds that pay a rate of return rather than just putting your money in a savings account right um now lots of people have tons of money cash in savings accounts these days because interest rates have been so high in the last couple years which is fantastic I mean if you could get five and a half percent at your bank take it all day long because there’s no risk right yes those numbers are coming down um and so you know you have to be mindful of how that’s how that’s impacting um you know your your interest rate and and so on right right yeah I think another interesting thing that I kind of struggle with that I’m working through myself is the I worry about my future self and so like sometimes I don’t let myself spend money right now or I have like this internal conflict if I’m gonna go shopping which I don’t do very often or consider like upgrading my car which is really old and I just keep putting off upgrading it because I’m like it’s paid off insurance is low I don’t drive that much and uh so finding that balance and it’s more of an emotional mental thought process I guess of like how much do I need to be cautious and save and think about Building Wealth versus how much do I like am I stopping myself from having joy in current day you know yeah yeah I think I I would I would venture to say that you’re more of a minority than a majority okay most people have trouble uh with impulse control about spending today and not worrying about tomorrow um so so let me address that first and then I’m G to go back so we can make you more comfortable with your cash flow and that you can do things I’m not a believer in um um in in poverty Consciousness or or you can’t have things if if if I um let’s say for example there’s something that I would like to have and my current cash flow doesn’t allow for it I’m gonna think about a way that I can either make more revenue or have a side hustle to allow me to do that or reduce an expense that trade you trade an expense like you talked about your car right so if I get a new car it’s going to be a $500 month car payment what could I do with that $500 well I could save $300 in a Roth IRA for retirement I could put $200 away for a trip you know it’s it’s a it’s an exchange we have an exchange we have choices right so it’s a matter of being conscious about your choices and I like to say um you know once you once you know too much you can’t make that poor decision without having it in your mental mindset so um it’s important to understand what your discretionary number is what you have on a monthly basis at your discretion you get to choose do you go to Costco do you buy a new car do you uh buy a new couch do you uh have a Starbucks Edition a a shoe fetish whatever it is we all have something yes that we like whatever it is um but we have choices so if you know what your income coming in is and your fixed expenses the things you need to take care of for your your um your health care your um your car payment your cell phone bill your kids whatever expense is those things you know what those expenses are there’s a number at the bottom of that little exercise that is at your discretion and you get to choose what are you g to do with it oh I’m GNA take the kids to uh you live in orl in the Orlando area I’m going to take the kids to Disney World this weekend well that’s going to blow your budget for a month right so U but you could save up for that you could say hey the kids really love this and it makes me feel so good to be able to give this to them so I’m Gonna Save $100 a month toward that goal and I think that’s where we lack the ability to um it’s it’s in the planning it’s in the it’s in the thinking about what do I want yes Absolut so what I work with my clients post divorce is a lot of times like what are the priorities and values like for me I love travel and if I don’t travel a few times a year sometimes small trips sometimes big trips traveling with my kids I I like exploring the world with them and showing them there’s so much out there so I have chosen that in order to travel that means I stick with my old car and I don’t get my nails done and those things would be nice but they aren’t as high on my priority list and values as travel but I think it’s really healthy for people to stay take a step back and say what is most important to me and especially this phase of life like maybe uh you know when your kids are little it’s going to be spending more money on their activities but that will change as they grow up and go to college or post College maybe where you have more money to spend on things for you or so phase of Life those are things as well it it is it is true and you know I mean depending on when you’re when you’re in your divorce uh process you you may have um you know if you’re a divorced in your 40s it’s it’s still very very expensive right um if you’re divorcing in your late 50s you know the kids are theoretically out of the house for the most part except for you know 

can I have some money because I ran my credit card bill up or whatever it is um but during that that 50 to 65 That’s What I Call crunch time right that’s where you’re like oh my gosh I I have to get serious about this I should have been saving all along I have to get real about retirement I’m making the most money I’ve ever made right in most cases you’re making the most money you’re you’re so what do you do with those resources rather than say oh I got a whole bunch of extra cash in my pocket how am I putting that to work for my future self right what my what are my goals what are my plans and how do I um you know make my assets more efficient right yeah absolutely yeah with side gigs like for me um like during my divorce uh I wasn’t getting very much money from my ex and rather than having a temporary hearing I just needed to get to mediation and so sometimes I would Airbnb my house me and my kids would go stay at my friend’s house cuz I was just pretty desperate for cash at that time but ever since then like if we travel um I’ll sometimes rent out my house which I know a lot of people aren’t comfortable with but it’s worked for me and um I kind of started to explore all different ways to try and use my assets like there’s two websites peer space and gigster where you can rent out your house to film cruise and stuff and so I do little things like that here and there and sometimes I watch dogs just to supplement my income with this business and I teach yoga on the side and so you know if you don’t have a traditional job which I’m not saying one is better than the other CU being an entrepreneur is challenging and stressful and sometimes feel like you probably work more or just the guilt of feeling like you should be working all the time is a completely different challenge than people who have a more traditional nine-to-five job but yeah in order for me to be around for my kids while they’ve been home I do a lot of Creative Financial income streams and um but I think if you have a traditional job it there’s no harm in thinking about little side gigs that could provide additional income I I couldn’t agree with you more and and it all boils down to knowing what what your values are what you talked about earlier what is it that you want like like life is about choices you you know you might somebody might say oh gosh I feel uncomfortable having people in my home well you know look you’re you’re going to be away for two weeks or you’re going to stay at your friend’s house for two week that’s a significant amount of money that could what contribute to your kids contribute to you you know it might be worth it there’s also um turo which is a car rental right you can also uh side hustle your car while you’re you’re on that same trip you know exactly when I travel I use turo I do too I love I like it I mean so it it’s it’s an odd concept you know 10 years ago but it’s it’s new and it’s h it’s a decent idea yeah there’s lots of things you can do so it’s either I like to say you know you can e there’s only two ways to really um get ahead financially okay you either have to make more money or you have to spend less it’s not that complicated right right if you’re unwilling to do both I can’t move you yes you’re just like a mued NE feet and bed I you know there’s no carrot there’s no stick so right um that’s our and and then I then I refer people to you and say I can’t motivate you know they’re stuck right right and that happens um oftentimes because you’re scared often times because you don’t have the knowledge um it’s new and but it’s a new territory but I think it doesn’t have to be scary we can uh help get you uh on a path and make decision that’ll be healthy and supportive of your family and your values yes yeah and I think you know it also comes down to like Risk tolerance as well like you know someone who maybe has less risk tolerance does better with uh investing in the stock market conservatively and then I am definitely a little less risk tolerant or like have more like example yeah uh my studio I had this like old garage in my backyard that I was teaching yoga and making very little money and then I decided I was going to refinance my house take a little money out and put a kitchen and bathroom in there and turn it into a rental and you know I had an estimate of like how much I had to do it and it cost so much more and so I ended up uh having to put a whole bunch of money on credit cards but I got all these zero aprs and I’m moving money around constantly for a period of time to like get me through and I definitely stretched myself like probably I took on that project without having enough money to really do it and luckily I figured out ways to get it done but I think that it is important for people to like maybe push themselves out of their comfort zone a little bit sometimes in order for like wealth building down the road so um so I agree and and disagree a little bit Yeah I think the average person the average person would not have made it through to the other side as easily as you did okay not that it was easy because you um you facilitated yourself through that and you had to have that um endurance and that push and okay what am I going to do let me solve this problem by getting uh credit cards and the average person would not have either thought of those things or would have been so overwhelmed they would have been yeah it was stressful there’s no doubt no doubt um so as a financial person if you had come to me and told me that that’s what you were going to do I would have wanted to talk through that process with you and the numbers and what the risks were um now I’m this I’m similar to you I’m an entrepreneur so I would have done what you did right I I mean I like the I like the risk factor I like the side hustle I do I do take risks and I’ve paid for them right um dearly uh at times yes and on the other hand you know I’ve made good amounts of money in in in Risky Investments the thing about real estate and I’ll just speak generally real estate excuse me real estate is an ill liquid investment so what do I mean by that I mean that you can’t easily say hey Jennifer I W to um uh I want to sell my property and we’re going to take that cash and do something else can you liquidate that today and give me the money right well we can get a realtor we can get an estimate we can remove all your personal things we can list your property for what you think it’s worth and then have to reduce the price and it might take two months that’s IL liquid right what if what if the real estate market is down when you need to get into it um so for many investors um real estate invest investing is a nice to have and maybe a maybe the third step in the third level if you will in terms of your financial building blocks I talked a little bit about building blocks if you don’t mind I’m going to share that one screen yeah totally um so Financial building blocks I I always talk about you know when you’re playing with a little kid um they build the blocks straight up and then they knock them over and it falls over rather easily well we want this Foundation to be um to to be sizable so I talked a little little bit about you know term insurance will uh emergency money having a nice place to live and knowing what your cash flow or your discretionary number is monthly this is really the Baseline where everybody needs to have a grip on their financial picture and then from there I me I mentioned getting your free money matching at work Roth IRA this is 529 plans education plans for kids taxable Investments adding more money to your retirement plan and then we go up from there so I would think of in my mind I think of real estate on this level maybe a little bit on this level too sure um you know before you fully fund your retirement if you did your WTH and you got your free money and you had some emergency money I’d be okay with you thinking about buying an investment property yeah and of course everybody is different you know I know that you have in in your situation somebody in your life who has a skill set in Building Homes right you are more uniquely capable than than I am because I don’t have that right so you have somebody who can go in there and go oh yeah we can rip up this wall and that’s not loadbearing and boom boom boom and it’ll cost about this and you know right so that’s an advantage over the average person who doesn’t so um all investing whether it be um stocks bonds um or or just putting it in in cash that’s not really an investment but it’s a savings vehicle and real estate starting a business all of those have different levels of risk and not everybody is um capable of sustaining that risk for a period of time yes absolutely and you mentioned starting a business like what is your take on that as far as risk since I you know the statistic a lot of new businesses don’t actually make it and it’s you know you’re spending money that you don’t know it for one it it at least a lot of times takes a few years to really become profitable I I think it um if we’re looking at a risk Spectrum it’s pretty far on the on the highrisk side yeah it also depends on you have to have staying power in any of these things you have to have a staying power of five to seven year period right and in order so let’s say for example and I know somebody um specifically she was making a good in income in 

her 50s making $150,000 decided that it would she saw this shiny object over here right oh it’s a franch I can buy into the franchise it’ll be more fun than my stressful corporate job right I’m gonna I’m gonna buy into this franchise and I’ll make make money on that yes well five years later you know she spent all this money it’s stuck there she’s working crazy hours and she might be making 60,000 right so that doesn’t compute from a financial perspective she lost we were in crunch time she was making a buck 50 so she L five years of $150,000 spent money and now is making 60 Grand that doesn’t that doesn’t work so starting a business in your with your specific um skill set or a partner business to to what you’ve already been doing um is potentially a great idea right just going and starting a business that you have no um no experiential connection to I think is is at the far end of of of risky yeah that makes a lot of sense yeah and people you’re I’m sorry your your listeners are either going to be entrepreneurial in nature or they’re going to be employee oriented and more conservative in nature for the most part so there’s my book is called Squeeze the juice so we could squeeze the juice out of whatever scenario you have we’re going to make it more efficient yes um first let’s get it let’s get clear get it more efficient and then you want to take risk let’s talk about that’s a calculated risk that’s appropriate for you right absolutely yeah I think that’s a really good point and the example that you gave is yeah it’s that would be really frustrating if you’re five years down the road and you’re making less and working more it’s hard that’s not fun no no I saw on your diagram on the bottom left it said love letter what is that um so love letter is a supplement it’s not a legal document it’s a supplement to your um to your wills and your legal documents some of us have um multiple children in our lives um family members that you might want to include or exclude uh from your from your assets uh upon your desk so you might want to communicate um what things are going to whom and why yeah so Writing Your Love Letter is talking to your the people who are important to you about what your values are um what um what if you’re if you’re gifting them things um you know through your will why and what you expect of them um and it can be and it can be very specific about what you’d like to have happen you know mind says please don’t please don’t have this you know sorrowful event you know have uh a couple of different uh people making making food and have good wine you know that’s I want a celebration of What Not um you know not this really sad thing um so I mean it’s a it’s a matter of communicating what you want and what your values are and what’s important to you um mine also talks about um my spouse is the non-money party is don’t spend the machine right you can spend the earnings on the machine right we we don’t have any kids so I’ve got nine nieces and nephews it says uh teach them to fish don’t give them money to buy a business give them money to get educated and be able to do those things give them money if they want to travel with you um things that we would have done anyway yes um you know are in my value system so um Writing Your Love Letter is really I think a a very sweet and generous way to communicate who you are and to the people are left behind yeah I love that that’s really not something I had thought of I I did my will few years ago because I was I had to have heart surgery which sounded really scary it ended up it was intense but it worked out I was fine after a recovery period and but that forced me to create my will and um but I never had heard of a love letter I think I’m going to add that to it actually you know it’s Le it’s a it’s a very you know my dad my dad got diagnosed with the brain tumor and he was a he was an adviser as well he was a planner but he was a a yellow legal pad guy you know and as such I have like yellow legal pads all over my office but um so he delivered his his family love letter in person he didn’t really know that he was doing it per se he had a family meeting at 6: am on uh you know on all my siblings and my mom and I and and he told us who influenced his life um who he wanted to speak at his funeral who he wanted to sing at his funeral and what he wanted her to sing um he told us that my mother was never to pick up a Visa card when we were out to dinner um he he shared you know he he talked to us about his his values he talked to us about uh having loved his his job and uh enjoyed the grandchildren and all these things and he traveled and I mean it was it was intense wow yeah and um you know and I have a note uh that’s at my home office on my desk and it’s three sentences right it’s a personal note from him to me and that’s important right so I think that’s probably the most valuable thing you could leave to your kids yeah communication with them about what you think of them and and um you know what Joy they bring and if they’re younger you know it’s also about what you’re what you hope for them what what your hopes are for them in marriage in com contributing to the community in work and values that’s really nice yeah I think nice to take the time to do that and I guess you have to periodically update it because hopefully you keep living longer and sure well I mean hopefully you keep living longer but honestly if you just get it get the first one down on paper I think that’s I think that’s um that’s really significant because you have a couple kids right yeah I have two okay so you know I I use this and um this will probably you know incite you to to do this but I like to say

 If This Were the last conversation you had to call up one of your kids and tell them everything they need to know right what would like that’s that’s the je that’s it right there yeah I G tell them this you know there’s a there’s some stuff yeah so just write it down in a quick piece of paper so you have an outline for each of them and then you can go in and flesh it out right right boom they need to know this this they need to know that and you know and here’s how I feel about you know the boyfriend that you have [Laughter] and yeah okay I I like that I’m gonna I’m gonna put that on my list of high priorities yeah just frame it out it’ll it’ll grow from there right yeah I’m sure can take on a life of its own um all right uh I think we’ve covered a lot of what I had thought we would I would ask you um I guess when one last question maybe uh when people seek out like a financial advisor post divorce like what are some things they should be thinking about when they’re looking for someone well I think um you know I met a young couple new neighbors of ours last night and and she was telling me how her um her she’s always known the family adviser for years and now she’s seeing somebody in the office because they’re younger and they don’t have assets and and I said that’s fantastic as long as you know like and Trust the person and you and you and you have an understanding that they know what your story is and what your values are and what your goals are that’s the most important part um so often times times um you know I definitely recommend asking friends you know you can listen to podcasts you can get referrals from professionals that’s definitely a good way to start but you should have a couple conversations with different people and um you want to ask about their approach um you want to ask about how they’re licensed so some people are just Insurance licensed and they can only use three products other people are securities insurance licens and they have the world at their disposal um some people are brand new in the business some people have been around the block um I’ve been around the block 28 times or so um and really learned from a little kid because my dad was in the business but um I think most important it’s a matter of um do your do your values match with that person and I it doesn’t matter to me what you want to do with your assets my job is to understand you right yes understand what your goals are and help you navigate potholes that you might accidentally fall into so as long as I let you know hey it’s right there you know if you want to go chances are you’re gonna fall in it but here’s what we can do to try to navigate around it that’s that’s what our job is so um definitely interview more than one person and um if something doesn’t feel right don’t go there yeah yeah trust your gut for sure yeah wonderful well I really appreciate your time I think this has been very helpful and uh inspiring for people to recognize that they can be empowered and uh even if it’s scary uh taking the brains and feeling like you have some control um is better than the deer in headlights and or ostrich and not wanting to even look at it so yeah unfortunately you know when you go through divorce you you’re forced to address it so um that’s exciting for me as an advisor because I always want people to be have their eyes open um but it’s not as scary as you think yeah I guess that’s really the message yeah take the first step yes yes all right well it was great talking to you and maybe we’ll do this again sounds good thanks for having me lat you’re welcome [Music]