Overcoming Fear of Managing Finances

Good morning everybody I am Lee Wright I am a divorce coach welcome to my channel Seasons EB and flow and I have this channel just to offer interviews about all topics related to divorce preparing for divorce uh going through the process and also healing from divorce and today I am happy to be interviewing Jennifer Lee she is a financial advisor and she wrote the book squeeze the juice that I have been reading and it’s excellent and uh we are going to talk about money but I am first going to ask Jennifer to tell us a little bit about her background uh 

Hi everybody thanks for having me on the show Lee I appreciate the invitation um you know I I love talking about money it’s an easy topic for me I grew up in and had an experience and um you know perhaps a money story that is not like most people you know I rode rolled coins um on Saturday evenings for my dad and had three jobs growing up sold candy bars on the back of the school bus those kind of things um you know and so I have a comfort level with with money and I love helping people to um really understand how you can leverage it as a resource that’s all it is it’s a resource to get what you want and what you need in life and um you know hopefully I can make it a little bit easier yeah wonderful yeah in your book you talk about how money is a tool and I really like the idea of thinking about it like that because money gives you opportunities but it doesn’t make you happy or ensure that everything’s going to go well in life like you’re still going to hit roadblocks even if you have a lot of money so it’s a tool absolutely for sure more more money does it make it better right it adds different challenges um so in your book you do talk about about your money story and what that means can you explain that a little bit more sure so I it’s actually a really interesting um topic of conversation that you can have with a a girlfriend with your partner with your uh with your divorce coach about what your first recollection and memory and history around money is you know was it of lack or was it of abundance um you know so scarcity a lot of people will have scarcity of money and it contributes to the way that they handle things today um it it it affects how they save money for their own retirement it affects their comfort level with even discussing it a lot of my clients um are are what I call the non-money party they’re the party that certainly is intelligent enough it’s not a matter of um uh capability it’s just a level of Interest this isn’t my area of interest and expertise and I really don’t want to deal with it and when you’re in a coupled situation often times you split the responsibility somebody takes out the trash somebody handles the money 

Somebody does the cooking all those things you divide and conquer right and you know if you are going through a divorce process you may all of a sudden have to deal with your money so it’s helpful for me as an adviser and maybe even you as a coach to understand their connection into it and uh fear of it or Comfort level with it so we could help facilitate uh what they’re really trying to accomplish um in their life yes absolutely and uh when you’re working with a client who does have that kind of perception from their past of lack how do you uh help them change that mindset or money story you know it’s for for every client that I work with we’re talking about I I like to to break it down to very basic Financial Concepts right um as an advisor people get scared about talking to an adviser just like they get scared about talking to an attorney um I try to make it less scary so financial planning is not that complicated it’s really simple what do you have what is your income what are your resources what are your what are your assets do you have inheritance do you have homes do you have property and what do you want and what do you want is really hard right so I can’t make that up for you you have to tell me what do I want I want to send my kids to private school

 I want to uh just feel like I I have bandwidth in terms of cash on a monthly basis what is it that’s important to you and then my job is to do all this stuff in between right so getting them acclimated to the basics of the financial world I think helps to um to to reformat their their money story a little bit and they say oh well I do that because you know when I was a little kid you know we never had enough money or um I recently interviewed somebody and she she shared with me she said look you know uh my dad was um big highs and big lows he made lots of money and then we lost our house and then we made lots of money and then we lost something else and she said so I’m terrified so her money story forces her to save all her money and hoard it in from a from a cash perspective I’m too nervous I don’t want to be in that space so it’s you know education is power knowledge is power so it’s it’s just trying to get people comfortable with basic money Concepts and then what do they want and you know the reality is you may or may not be moved to do the right the things that I think are right to help you get to where you want but all I can do is educate you and and encourage you to uh to make those Right Moves for yourself and your family yeah I get that completely yeah and it takes time for people to change those mindsets you know it’s little baby steps along the way and then in uh your book you talk a little bit about uh the challenges money can play in a relationship in a marriage and uh can you talk about that a little bit yeah um it’s very interesting and and and like I said you can you can have this conversation with with your your spouse your um uh your significant other and really try to understand what their relationship was with money because if it’s very very different you have to address that right it’s just like anything else it’s just like your um you know your background in your childhood you you’re not going to raise your kids exactly the same way if you have two very very different experiences growing up so understanding those um those stories um you you can ask your spouse so you know are you resisting doing this because of old stuff or is this really what makes sense for us today right can we talk about it and can we have that uh make that move

 it helps me as an advisor to understand somebody’s predisposition to uh a reaction so you know is that your first answer or your final answer right so your first answer is that emotional child answer and you know the the the final answer is the rational let’s consider this and where we are today and does that still fit yeah I think back to my uh marriage and my ex and I definitely had different ways of dealing with money and our perception of how to spend it and I I definitely remember the stress that that caused on us um and I will say one of the things I I really felt good about post divorce was I have control of the way my money gets spent and uh once you’re comfortable with that it’s really empowering and a relief that it’s not going to be something where money’s going out for things that you really don’t think are necessary based on your life situation and but I know that uh for a lot of people post divorce money management can be very overwhelming um what are some of the things that you’ve seen with clients post divorce um like the challenges or how they work well you know there’s there’s a number of concerns I’ll just share that that make me worry some as you’re going through divorce right so I’m I’m um definitely a financial Advocate I want to make sure that we don’t leave any money on the table um you know I want to make sure that you get your fair share of um what you’re entitled to so um do you know not everybody is exactly the same it’s not just a a male female thing but I find that U my female clients will um more easily just say I want it over and maybe leave things on the table sure and um and so our job my job your job is to support them in that process okay let me just let’s talk through this and let’s hold on because you are entitled to this and you’re you might need it um for your kids for yourself for your future and um I mean when I introduced myself a lot of times women will come up to me and say where were you when I needed you like where were you when I was going through my divorce I needed to hear these things I needed to have somebody who who could um give me that Fe back um so I think um you know one of the scary things is make sure you get everything that you’re entitled to um don’t give up too soon um really understand what your life is going to look like after divorce while you’re in that process because um it’s it’s not only a a uh turning over the apple cart um of of your home and your emotions and your relationship and your family has so many so many different components but now you have the monies that were coming into one household have to support to okay so that’s a big deal if you had a bunch of extra money then okay maybe it’s not a problem but I don’t have that many people who say oh we have so much money it’s no problem we’ll just split everything it’s I’m good right um so you really want to be mindful about what that future might look like and um absorb that and then you know work with an advisor to plot out what what that’s going to look like what do you need as far as income what do you you know does it make sense for you to keep the house oftentimes it doesn’t it’s an emotional attachment um and so you know I’m sure that you talk through with clients often does it really make sense you know what if you had a smaller place but you had cash and you had things you could do with your kids now um you had freedom whereas if you keep the house maybe you can’t take the kids to uh an amusement park for the weekend um but your husband your wusband can because he has that small apartment yes so you know it just it just depends it’s really getting people clear on uh what their what their life is going to look like from a financial perspective and can they live with it absolutely yeah it’s funny I was talking to a guy friend be like kind of during my divorce and he said you know one advice to you that I give you as I’ve been dating so he was dating women post divorce he’s like a lot of women say to me I wish I had fought a little harder because now I’m really struggling and that made me think like okay and I sat down and you know thought about like what does my budget look like post divorce to manage the house I have my kids most of the time uh so like what does that look like for me to survive and then I don’t want to just survive so like what do I need to actually have a life and that helped me kind of as I went into mediation like this is what I think I deserve want and need to get on my feet and like I tell my clients it takes a few years to like get back on your feet financially so be prepared but when you go into mediation like really know what you think is fair and will help you get on your feet within a few years so that you’re not struggling and can’t like do a few fun things or take your kids on a vacation and and another thing.

I learned in my marriage was once we were very money poor due to house like we bought a house that was his choice that was way too much for us and we couldn’t do like hardly anything because of the house and uh yeah I that was a big lesson that you know just to have a nice house and not be able to spend on other things it’s a huge tradeoff and that’s that’s true in life that’s true in a happily married couple just like you’re you’re saying and that’s true in um looking at retirement right it’s it’s Financial component so it’s it’s really um it’s a shiny object and it and it looks great and it feels great um but what’s it going to be like two years from now and um does it restrict you from doing other things so when I say what do you have and what do you want well I want this big shiny house but I also want a vacation and I also want this and I also want that well if that’s clear well something’s got to give right yeah so you either make more money or you spend less right that’s I mean we hope I hope you win the lottery but right yeah reality ISS you still have many challenges if you do that too right for sure yeah one thing like now my car is really old it’s paid off but oh my gosh it does not look like the greatest car but of all the things I would spend my money on the car is not one I want to be able to take my kids on vacation and do fun things with them and so I just keep telling myself as long as this car is driving like and I don’t have a car payment I would rather go without that until they’re out of the house and then that might be become a more of a priority for me but yeah we all have to choose what tradeoffs are important to us for sure yeah and um you talk a little bit about uh divorce checklist can you tell us like what that is what that looks like so you know it really depends on where you know where I enter into the process you know so pre-divorce um you’re just thinking about it you know to me the first step is to go have a conversation with um with an attorney and understand what you can expect at a best case scenario that gives you a reality check and a framework yeah because you might be shocked of what you thought you would be entitled to and what you’re actually entitled to so we have to have u a a recalibration there and really understand what that looks like so um it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to hire the attorney right then and there but you need to understand in your area what what are the expectations and what is the best case scenario and that’ll help you and me to then look at um resources so all right what do you and your spouse have how long have you been married um you know do you expect to split custody do you expect to have the kids all for yourself the home we’re talking about all these different components really getting a um your ducks in a row I like to say um uh one of my favorite movies is the other woman and um it’s a it’s a comedy and it’s just I I I think it’s just kind of fun and um Cameron Diaz says at one point she’s the attorney she says you have to get your ducks in a row right and that means really understanding what does it look like from a financial perspective what does it look like from a legal perspective and how am I G to get through this right right oftentimes that involves a coach or a therapist or both because it is an emotional roller coaster sometimes referred to as an emotional nightmare but um you know it’s a process so getting your ducks in a row understanding what all the assets are in your that potentially could be div um separated and then if you’re in the middle a lot of times people will come to me because they their attorney is now asking for things like the marital balance sheet and um if they’re the non-money party they that’s that’s stressful and overwhelming so I’ll have them collect data and we put that together and then um as you get close in mediation or in um you know in in if you had to go to litigation or at whatever negotiating Point you’re in um there are other things like um just making sure that um the attorneys file um a Quadro qualified Domestic Relations order at the end um that’s you know I had a client who had an attorney for seven years she was going through a divorce and it was finally it was brutal they wasted all kinds of money in court and um and finally it was over and they failed to file the quadro so now we have to go back to the attorney so the the quadro is just a document that is an a court uh um a court document that um a judge has to sign off and it says you know how you split assets and it allows the financial institution to take that document and then take your 41k and split it however it says um but you really you know all of a sudden you’re done with your divorce but you have no money because still tied up in his account because there’s no quadrus now you got to wait another six months or so um so I want to make sure that you have that taken care of um there’s other things like um if you have children together or there’s a a a long um alimony payment you might want to have some irrevocable life insurance on your on your former spouse so that God forbid something happen to him um your alimony continues because otherwise it just stops right nobody thinks about that no that’s interesting yeah um so there’s lots of little nuggets that um you know you you you pick up over other people’s mistakes and hopefully we um we pick those up and we can uh add them to the list and and make sure that people are taking care of those things but those are those are a few of them yeah oh that that was a really I had did not know about that life insurance option so yeah good to know yeah so I mean you can you you can just change the beneficiary to be um you know if it it probably was the the spouse anyway but you want to change it to make it irrevocable and make that part of the divorce settlement so meaning he can’t change it to a new girlfriend or to the kids um for a period of time if your alimon is 10 years then do it for 10 years right right that makes a lot of sense sense yeah and um I talked to a lot of attorneys that I’m in my circle and some of them do collaborative divorce can you tell us a little bit about that sure I love collaborative divorce you know I I I look at I look at marriage and um you know certainly marriage is a been that that have been um longstanding and I hope that um people can this is a this is definitely a hope I hope that people can look at it and say look this was the love of my life this is the mother of my children or this is the father of my children I don’t want to hate them and and and be vile like it it can get ugly so fast so collaborative is a beautiful um concept that reduces litigation costs um um uh can facilitate things rather quickly and basically each party has their own attorney that tells them hey this is reasonable that’s not reasonable this is what you you can expect um so they’re a sounding board then you have um usually you have a licensed clinical social worker who helps to make sure that tempers are um tempered uh and moderated and um and helps with um discuss questions about um children and future cost and alimony and helps with the negotiating back and forth kind of um communicating with each party what’s what the attorneys have said is reasonable you know if somebody is being well I absolutely she can’t have this house I won’t let her have this okay well you know let’s talk through that and what is it about the house that means so much to you and and so you’re using that skill set that maybe a litigation attorney doesn’t have um to to soften this process and facilitate it more quickly and then you have a financial neutral um Financial neutral I is usually a uh a cdfa and it is um a process of fixed cost where a financial professional will assess the assets and um help to divide them evenly so if you want the house what’s the house worth um if you paid off the mortgage and uh they’re you know if you look at what the capital gain you would have benefited from what do you get in Ira is that Equitable and and they really um even things out to make it 

Make it Equitable and you know I’ve seen I have one client who I I’m just way impressed with um I met her she said um you know my my uh husband is an addict he came out of treatment um I filed for divorce I have him agreeing to all these different things we’re going to the attorney one attorney he’s agreeing they’re both agreeing and boom boom boom and she was done like I think it cost her two grand wow which is unbelievable and did quadros and the whole thing um and they have kids now still rocky after dealing with you know spreadsheets about well you owe me this for the kids karate you’re 70% of the karate fee um but she’s done and and that’s like the the absolute best scenario so I think collaborative is really is really should be the goal you should you should focus and aim for that and if you can’t do it and it’s really a mess then you need the litigation attorney but the only people who win in litigation are the attorneys honestly and um it’s just torturous it’s just torturous emotionally so I don’t I don’t recommend no finding the biggest shark in town it’s horrible and I think the Sharks really want the war and which then gets you into court instead of being able to complete in mediation and yeah they’re the winners for sure and you now if you have kids have to co-parent with this person yes where a war was started and uh being able to finish in mediation whether it’s collaborative or with a mediator and two attorneys or just a mediator there’s a lot of different permutations but I think if people can go into it with I want the best for my kids and both parties stay focused on that and and the best for their kids is also not having one spouse be poor and the other one all set because how is that good for your kids if they have to live in a home that’s completely without anything and another home that’s got everything like that isn’t win-win for your kids so right if you can keep your kids front and center you for like I’ve heard the saying if you can uh love your kids more than you hate your ex then you can do the right thing and uh so yeah I really try to work with my clients to stay in their best self and keep the kids front and center so that they can stay out of litigation um and you know if you ask um you know a litigation attorney um you know if I go to mediation right now what am I going to get versus litigation yes you’re going to get the same thing they’re not going to tell you that you have to ask and you may have to ask twice right follow question but that is the reality like that’s why I say the first thing to do is to find out what you can expect best case scenario because you’re not getting more than that right I I mean you’re just not gonna get more than that so so what are you why are you going through that whole exercise absolutely yeah and I always remind people that mediation is a negotiation uh you know custody might be hard if you can’t agree but when it comes to finances it’s a business negotiation and um in mediation you can come up with Creative Solutions based on each of your priorities and agendas whereas if you go to court you’re kind of at the whim of what the judge thinks and yeah that’s you don’t know what that’s going to look like that day exactly yeah and oftentimes there’s very different you know it’s it’s very it’s very most many many many jurisdictions it’s it’s a 5050 split right of resources of of retirement accounts of assets.

if you’ve been married 20 years um but it may not be fair if one person is has a has a big career and the other person raised the family right now what like the person who raised the family might take five years to build a business right and so you need cash flow or you need alimony or you need support for that period of time so it’s negotiating those things right absolutely and for the like the example of someone who stayed home with the kids and they they now have to fill out these Financial affidavits and understand their finances some people get like deer in headlights yes how do you help them through that um I’ve been doing a lot of it lately um and um you know so people will come to women will come to me in the midst of this divorce process and the attorney’s asking for all these things and um they’re they’re overwhelmed and they say well I need a financial advisor well right now I mean I’d love for you to be my client but you that would be in six months a year right right now what you need is triage right you’re coming in the emergency room you’re all wounded you need me to Pat you up and figure out a plan right and what and and so that’s what we do we do triage we help you through those forms we help you think through what is your life going to look like make sure you don’t leave anything on the table do the quadril all those pieces that we talked about and then and then I say I’m here right like so if you have questions or when your attorney gets you you’re in mediation and you get you know a settlement that you think is reasonable we can talk about it and you can ask for these other things or and and so there’s there’s support um but I typically do that triage and then once it’s over and you’ve got your Quadro and your resour and your money is now coming to you now it’s like okay Jennifer now what right and then now it’s okay okay so here’s what you have right what do you want yes right and then that’s my job is to make everything that you have as efficient as possible and it works the same way with you know somebody losing a spouse you know somebody retiring here’s what you have what do we what do we want your life to look like and it’s all those tradeoffs and it’s it’s not just a money conversation it’s a there’s a psychological component to it I think that um is critical so I mean I can ask that allocate your account and tell you how you should be doing what what what you should be doing for your retirement and just do numbers I can do that but that’s not really GNA serve the entire person absolutely so yeah when I’m working with clients post divorce it’s a lot of uh visioning what do you want your life to look like and what are your priorities like is traveling something you really want to prioritize or you know is decorating your house really important to you and you know how do you focus on those priorities and ensure that you can make them happen um yeah yeah and what about situations I have some clients where their one of the spouses has their own business and they feel like uh money the information about the business is not being openly shared in order for like hiding things when you have a business it’s not W2 and how do you help clients through that or work like figure that that can be um a a real a real concern and there are um people people who are forensic accountants who you you can you know discuss with your attorney whether or not it makes sense to hire um but a forensic accountant can um can really dig into the books and dig into everything that’s happening inside the business to give you a better understanding um theoretically if you were um all on the up and up and and looking at a a business you you can from an accounting perspective Ive get a sense of what the owner is really getting out of the business Beyond just the the distributions or the um 1099 income right so or the W2 income um and it’s oftentimes it’s it’s lease payments on cars it’s um insurance it’s um other bonuses um so it really can be more complex um and and if you if you have one party who is the business owner and has always managed things and never really communicated much about it you probably need somebody to to Really look into that um along the same line I find that um a lot of women will say yeah but it’s his business and I to that I say um did he start started when you got married and did you you know you were a family unit so you are entitled to a proportion of that business from where it started when you got married to where it grew to so maybe had it was worth 200,000 when you married but now it’s worth two million guess what you’re entitled to half of that difference between 200,000 and two million and it may just mean that um you know you either get a a a chunk of change that you can invest and um use for your own income or it may mean that you’re on the payroll indefinitely um with the life insurance policy to guarantee that so so there’s all kinds of creative negotiating pieces depending on what you need right yeah absolutely yeah and um in your book squeeze the juice what are a few things that you think are the biggest takeaways for people um that you hope they get out of it if they read it so so first I’ll say I wrote the book for the non-money party I wrote it for people who don’t really want to talk about money so don’t be scared that it’s a financial book you will accidentally learn things I promise you’ll learn one or two things guaranteed um that you can you can apply to your life but it’s not a painful it’s a it’s story based um at least that was my intention so um a couple of different areas one we talked about financial planning as simple the other um and and this is really applicable for everybody is understanding your discretionary number so just explain this real quickly because this is one of my favorite things people are scared of the word budget I’m not trying I’m not the person who wants to restrict to your spending um uh if I want something and I can’t necessarily afford it right now I figure out how am I going to go get that right what can I do to do that I was talking to a a friend who um you know has a regular job and doesn’t have a lot of extra discretionary money but wants to travel I said well okay you’re really good at planning trips why don’t you plan a group trip of 12 people and you get compensated for putting it together and then you go for free yes there are Creative Solutions there are ways to make things happen you don’t have to just go oh I don’t have any money I can’t travel right there are other Solutions yes um so understanding what you have at your discretion on a monthly basis helps you to make those decisions like if your discretionary number is um so so it’s income coming in your expenses that you have to pay and then what’s left you might say well you know I don’t really have $1,500 in my checking account every month and I’ll say well let’s look at your checking account you know how much is your Starbucks card being refilled you know are you hitting Costco or and maybe some of it’s food but maybe some of it’s the you know the electric bike that was on the end cap and you got excited about right I’m not saying you can’t have the electric bike but maybe we allocate $100 a month for five months for the electric bike and then you get the electric bike right so it’s all it’s it’s really just a a tweak of a mindset so that I think is a very important um chapter and then the whole premise of the book is really about um squeezing the juice out of life right getting the most out of an experience a podcast um a conversation with your coach a um a trip somewhere and taking care of your family so yeah absolutely yeah 

I think um the the a few things that you just spoke about that are so important for the stay-at-home parent recognizing that you made tradeoffs in order to let that person grow their career and uh that makes you worthy of getting money and many people struggle with that concept feeling like they’re you know mooching but it was a team effort to grow that other person’s career and so yeah I think that whole acceptance that you are worthy of that money is really crucial for people to get their head around especially if the the working partner is making them feel guilty about asking for it because then you really start to struggle with the this is fair and um and that’s and that’s where I would say so you know as as you know we have a rational mind and an emotional mind right so so the emotions you get you get wrapped up in that and say well you know but it was his business and I didn’t you know do anything and that’s a self-worth thing and we need to to to to streamline that and also he’s hammering you about um you’re just GNA take my money and it no okay so that’s why it’s valuable to have that knowledge base from the attorney to know hey you are entitled to boom boom boom keep that piece of paper because we’re gonna come back to it of what he or she told you you are entitled to yes okay that’s a that’s a minimum and then the ad advisor is going to help to to make sure that you get those things and the coach like yourself is going to help you re uh you know reposition your mindset around it that hey I you know I am valuable in this process and I did all these things and helped grow your career you don’t have he doesn’t have to believe it but I’ll have to pay it right I mean you don’t you’re probably getting divorced because you couldn’t get him to believe your perspective anyway so that’s okay don’t worry about it absolutely you don’t have to believe his either so yes and uh another thing I talk to my clients about is and some because it’s something that has worked for me is I have Incorporated uh side gigs to help supplement and I think people forget that there are so many creative ways to actually supplement your income that aren’t it’s like people immediately think Uber or something which might sound horrible but um I host dogs at my house which I love dogs my my personal dog loves having other dogs to play with um I have my house on a few places like gigster and peer space and you can rent it out to film cruise and because I have like a 1920s Bungalow it it has a look and feel it’s not fancy but it has a look that people like for music videos and stuff that’s awesome that’s not perfect for some people they might not feel comfortable having other people in their home but I just remind people that there are ways to a lot of different ways to uh increase your income or okay another one for travel there’s uh a an app called called trusted pets sitter where you can go and stay at people’s homes as a pets sitter for free and they’re all over the world and beautiful yeah so travel isn’t not available you just have to find creative ways to be able to make it happen some I love that I love that I’m gonna look that up yeah it’s really pretty cool I just had I’m glad that you mentioned this the side Hustle a a client of mine is is on the edge of of divorce and she just said to me you know I can talk to you on Saturday morning I’m on my way to my side hustle and I said well what are you doing she said oh you know I’m just um you know um um emptying out people’s garage um throwing out stuff for older people you know they might need their um I mean she’s a little more handy you know their bathroom Reco whatever it is I’m just getting paid to do things things that are easy for me to do and it gives me a little extra cash in my pocket so yes you know there’s there’s there’s an endless number of things I mean I got all kinds of stuff in my house I gotta pay her she doesn’t live in the same state anymore but you know there’s there’s i’ be happy to pay somebody to remove it you know or sell it on eBay right right totally yeah come to my house get my stuff sell it on eBay and take a cut yeah for sure yeah I think people uh need to keep thinking that making money can actually be fun you know if you can look at it as like oh this is another skill I have how can I use it so um yeah because uh I think the overwhelming part of money post divorce for a lot of people they deer in headlights just like the financial Avid David and once they get com able with that idea that they have uh or uh the ability to you know change it it gives you a little bit of momentum yeah let’s make sure you get your piece so that we got you stabilized and then add some side hustles and and career tweaks and off and running yes yes well uh this has been really great if um if people wanted to reach out to you with questions or uh find out more about you and what you do where can they find you sure so I I always like to offer that um um you know more than likely something popped into your mind I hope that we helped you um but if there’s something that is a burning question that was unanswered for you specifically um you can you can send me hook up with me on calendly for a 15 minute no cost no obligation answer right um and that is uh calendly.com and it’s just Jennifer and then modern wealth that’s my company um and my website is modern and then a dash and then the word wells.com great I’ll put that in the notes thank you yeah absolutely and uh I just want to also mention that the book is titled squeeze the juice and for people who want something that’s very user friendly to read uh and just get a good overview if the idea of money or managing your money feels overwhelming it’s a really easy read and has some really great things to think about I appreciate that yeah it was so nice talking to you and I appreciate your time and uh have a great trip she’s on her way to St Thomas so um I will let you know when this is up and take care wonderful thank you very much Lee nice talking with you you too all.

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